Initial comments

Dear Friends,

I thank Mr. Dhamala for saying nice words for me and for giving me this opportunity to meet all of you. Today has been a very sad day for us because just a few hours back a friend of mine of more than thirty years standing, Shri Gajendra Narayan Singh, President of Nepal Sadbhavana Party passed away. He was a man of great integrity, sincerity and courage. I think, in his death, Nepal has lost a great leader.

You have invited me to your club at a time when so many things are happening in Nepal, in this region. Things are going to have an impact on the way international relations are going to be framed and conducted during the coming years. Nepal has been at the very heart of these developments.

As Mr. Dhamala mentioned, during the last few days, we had the most successful conference of the leaders of SAARC. The way the conference was organized, the meticuluous manner in which everything was looked after, is a great testimony of the organizing capacity of the Government of Nepal. His Majesty's Government did everything possible to make a grand success as it turned out to be. It was an example of what is called 'conclave diplomacy' which is a very happy thing.

As far as India's relations with Nepal are concerned, it has been going on in two currents, a visible current and a very basic current, which is not so visible. The visible current sometimes has ripples going up and down but the invisible current is guided by the links of history, geography, culture, community and family relationship. It only proceeds in one direction that is forward. So, that has been our relationship. It is not for me to give any particular examples of that because you are all so well aware of Indo-Nepal relationship. So, I would like to know from you what you would like to know. So, please let me have your questions and I will try to answer them to the extent possible.

Questions and Answers

Yuvsambad : Nepal and India are totally separated by borders and also in sovereignty. Even then, politics of India and Nepal are intertwined. A lot of Indian leaders and Ambassadors are unnecessarily interested in our politics, why is it so? Why are you interested in our internal problems and what is the mystery of this type of interest?

Ans. First of all, you yourself said that we are neighbours with border between two sovereign states. It will be a sad day if nations don't take interest in what is happening in their neighbourhood. It is a very natural thing for any political leader in India to know what is happening in our neighbourhood in Nepal, and for any leader in Nepal to know what is happening in the neighbourhood in India. Same is the case with other neighbours also. It is not that Indian politicians take interest only in Nepal. They take interest in what is happening in all our neighbours. So, there is nothing unusual in it. There is no mystery anywhere involved. I would like to tell you, please, if there is any mystery it is in your mind. Kindly come out with it and I will tell you that these are not mysteries. There is nothing mysterious, nothing is secret, nothing confidential, no conspiracy of any kind. It is a neighbour with which we are so closely associated and it will be a very sad thing if Indian leaders stop taking interest in anything that is happening in Nepal. It is not good for any country, for any neighbour. We have a very healthy, a very positive interest, a constructive interest and there should be no doubt of any kind that there is anything mysterious brewing between India and Nepal.

Hari Lamsal : Nepal-India relationship is very close, but sometimes problems come up, what are the causes of it? Secondly the Trade Treaty between Nepal and India is going to expire soon, what kind of exercise is being done for a new Treaty?

Ans. Your first question is why do problems arise. Even between two brothers problem arise, in the same family. It is part of human nature because we are living beings, intelligent beings, thinking beings. We think of our future. Between such live, conscious and growing societies, we are bound to have problems. So, one should not be surprised by that. Surprising thing is when problems are not solved. Then there is a problem. You have mentioned about the Treaty. Well, negotiations for the finalization of the Treaty - other negotiations have taken place - are going to start in a few days' time and we are hoping that within a month we will have a new Treaty.

R.C. Neupane (In Nepali) - Your Excellency, you have given a friendly picture of Nepal-India relationship. I had asked this question to Prime Minister Vajpayee also. India had started working on the Gujral Doctrine of dealing with neighbours on the basis of non-reciprocity. In the Trade Treaty there is a clause of automatic renewal every five years. India has not done so. We feel that a big country like India has not been sensitive to the problems faced by a small country like Nepal. Secondly, during the SAARC Summit, after the handshake between Prime Minister Vajpayee and President Musharraf we felt that the problem for terrorism will be resolved. SAARC Summit also resulted in a resolve against terrorism. Will there be a war between India and Pakistan on this issue?

Ans. (In Hindi) You have talked about the Gujral Doctrine. You talked about the India-Nepal Trade Treaty. I would like to tell you that relation between India and Nepal is based on the same principles of Gujral Doctrine, since 40 years before the Gujral Doctrine was propounded, that is, non-reciprocity. Isn't this what Gujral Doctrine is all about? Which means that whatever India does for Nepal, India should not expect that Nepal should also do the same for India. But this is in our Treaty since 1950. When the Treaty of Trade and Transit of 1950 was renewed for the first time in 1960, I was part of the Indian delegation, which came to Nepal. There was the B.P. Koirala Government in Nepal. It was restated in that Treaty that these benefits will be given by India to Nepal and India will not seek similar benefits from Nepal. That is why I said that Gujral Doctrine is in place between India and Nepal since long. Gujral Doctrine has not done anything new, as far as Nepal-India relationship is concerned.

Then you talked about the renewal of the Treaty. Earlier also, the Treaty was renewed every ten years. Treaty was signed in 1950 and it was renewed in 1960. When it was renewed for the second time, I was Deputy Chief of Mission in the Embassy here and the Treaty was renewed in the beginning of 1971. For the first time, in 1996 it was decided that the Treaty will be extended automatically. India had some problems, because of which India had to give a notice. It should not be taken as if there is any deterioration in our relationship or the importance of the Treaty has reduced or India has gone back on her responsibilities. The negotiations also are taking place on the principles what you are saying as Gujral Doctrine. This will not be in any other form because this is an old principle in Nepal-India relationship. India is careful about it and will never like to let any problem creep in. India will never want that any industry in Nepal be closed down. There can never be a Treaty because of which Nepal will have to face any economic hardship and its interests are not safeguarded.

Your second question was about India and Pakistan. Conditions have improved after the SAARC Summit. After that, President Musharraf has made some announcement on January 12 to his countrymen in which he has given a new and modern political thinking for Pakistan. He himself said that he wants Pakistan to be a modern, progressive state. India welcomed this. We only want that whatever he said in words, those words should be put in practice. Those principles should be effective on the ground as well and we are waiting for that only. Our Prime Minister has told him that we have given names of some people who have indulged in terrorism against the Indian laws, we want them back. Gen. Musharraf said that the Pakistanis included in the list will not be given back. Our Government said that, in that case, those who are not Pakistanis should be given to us, at least there are fourteen Indians in that list, those should be given to us. In reply to this, a list is being sent from Pakistan in which they have asked for a few people from India. Our Foreign Minister has said 'give us that list, we will work on that immediately'. But, what is the situation on the ground. Every day one incident or the other is taking place. Day before yesterday, there was an attack in Jammu in which small children, including a one and a half year old child, were killed. Yesterday, the American Culture Centre in Kolkata was attacked. And the investigations show that they were also connected with some organization such as Lashkar or Mujahideen. All this is happening. We have been saying and we will continue to say that we are tired of fighting against terrorism. Our patience has reached its limit. How long will we continue to fight? We have asked cooperation from Pakistani Government in this. There is no question of war. We don't want to fight with them. We only want their cooperation. It is not as if war is imminent. On the other hand, our expectations from their Government, the expectations of the whole world, are that what they have said should be translated into action.

Kedar Mansingh, AFP

Q. The problem of Bhutanese refugees in Nepal, politicians and intelligentsia views that it could be solved overnight if at all India uses its influence over Bhutan to take back the Bhutanese refugees. Second question is about attack on US cultural Centre in Calcutta and your Government doubts it is masterminded by ISI and that it is designed by the Pakistani Government. Will this incident affect the newly improved relations between the two countries.

Ans. On your first question, I would like to say that this is a matter between two very close neighbours of India, with whom we have excellent relations, Nepal, as well as Bhutan. We are aware of this problem. You mentioned that if India wants, it can solve. We want it to be solved. We have been, in fact, using our own persuasion with both the Governments that this is a matter, which should be resolved. But we don't like to add anything more to our responsibility than a friendly advice to both the countries. And I am not pessimistic, I am optimistic. I think some beginning is being made and things will progress and hopefully soon this problem will be resolved between Nepal and Bhutan.

On your second question about the attack on the US Cultural Centre in Kolkata. We are also hoping that nothing should happen, that should push the relationship between the two countries further towards confrontation. But, some kind of assuring voices should also come from the other side. Have you heard anything? I have not. If you have heard any comment from Pakistani side, please tell me.

As for ISI, India has not said that we have proof that it is ISI. It is still being investigated. What about the groups, the organizations, which are involved? I think, very soon the facts will come out and then we have to see to what extent Pakistan Government goes in punishing the people who are involved or what action it takes against the organizations. But, this has come as an obstacle. Every year something or the other is coming. So, an effort should be made from the other side also that such things should not come. I am not saying that such things should stand in the way, I hope not.

Rama Parajuli, Kantipur - Would you like to comment on the ISI activities against India using Nepali land. What is RAW doing here?

Ans. First of all, I don't have a list of ISI activities here but I can tell you that these organizations don't work like that. Every country has its own organization but the important thing is that there should be nothing destructive. There should be nothing, which results in terror. Otherwise, every country has its own intelligence organization. As long as it remains within peaceful limits of intelligence gathering, it is alright. But when it comes to creating terror that becomes a problem. And ISI has that kind of thing as far as Nepal is concerned. It is not my responsibility. Perhaps, if you ask His Majesty's Government, they can tell what and how active the ISI is, but we have seen that they have also been active here, diplomats have been found with RDX. Do you think the diplomatic bag brings RDX. Do you think the diplomats should deal with RDX. Material things, at the most, Whisky bottles and things like that, that is what we know. I have also been a diplomat. But to keep RDX… Do you think Pakistani Foreign Office would do that. RDX are not a product that the Foreign Offices deal in. Then who in Pakistan will do it? I don't have to give you many examples. RAW is not doing any such thing in any country, let me tell you that.

Bhagirath Yogi, Spotlight - We have been having a state of emergency for the last two months to fight the Maoists. Has there been any efforts from the Indian Government to help the Nepalese Government in the fight against the Maoists? Has there been any particular understanding when Mr. Vajpayee was here in Kathmandu?

Ans. Well, India has extended its support to His Majesty's Government. We have supported the emergency and have extended support to His Majesty's Government in tackling the Maoists problem. We have said it at so many levels, at the Prime Minister's level, at the level of His Majesty and at Foreign Minister's level. There is already a very close cooperation between the border authorities the two countries to see that the terrorists do not get support from India and to see that they do not go into India. Our intelligence agencies are also cooperating. We have a very close cooperation and many border meetings have been held, more will be held. We are very clear about this matter that the Nepalese Government should be helped in every possible way.

Shirish Pradhan, PTI - Has the recent visit by Collin Powel succeeded in reducing tension between India and Pakistan? Secondly, there have been news reports that the Nepalese Maoists and the Indian Maoists have held meeting in the border area near Chitwan. Are the two countries doing anything to stop this?

Ans. As for the visits of the US Secretary of State to India and Pakistan are concerned, such visits always lead to better understanding. But to say that a visit has taken place and it immediately changes everything overnight is to expect too much. I think there is a very close cooperation in exchange of information between India and the USA on this matter and between USA and Pakistan. To that extent, such visits are always welcome.

On the question of the meeting of Maoists, we also hear sometimes that such meetings are being held but we make sure on our side, we watch very carefully, whenever we get any information, we are very watchful and try to help His Majesty's Government in tackling Maoists problem.

Ram Sedai, The Kathmandu Post - Your Excellency, you have mentioned that India has some problems in renewing the Nepal-India Trade Treaty. Notwithstanding the huge trade deficit between Nepal and India, the issue of "export surge" that India has raised, in our opinion, cannot affect the Indian industry as it has been put forward in the media or by the officials of the Indian Government. So, we had difficulties in reaching some agreement on this issue. India has been asking for value addition in 5 goods. How are you going to negotiate and how are you going to resolve the issue?

Ans. The 4-5 item that you named, they have not been helping Nepal either, in fact, these have been hurting the Indian industrialists and businessman. It is all right that India has a big export and import in which Nepal forms a very small portion but the fact is that it hurts the individual businessman. A lot of factories have been closed down in UP and Bihar which were producing vegetable oil and things like that. And these items are such that they have not been helping Nepal. Nepal has been using its valuable hard earned Dollar for importing raw materials from third countries, and these are going to India on payment in Indian Rupees. How is Nepal being helped by this? And it is only repackaging and doing a little work. I am happy to say that neither the trade nor the Government here is in favour of such items going like that. These are only a few items, nothing else. And when the value addition thing is being negotiated, I think it is being done very carefully. It is not going to be done arbitrarily. We will take care of Nepal's interest. So, please, rest assured, the outcome will not hurt you.

Sedai - It is right, Your excellency, that Nepal is spending Dollars and earning Indian Rupees, and the five items, vegetable ghee, copper wire and the others exported to India hurt the small scale industries, but the export percentage to India is very very low. So, it cannot affect the Indian industry.

Ans. I don't know, what you mean by affecting the Indian industry. If an individual industrialist is affected, he becomes a pauper. Does it not matter? After all, Indian economy can absorb a shock, it has been absorbing. Also, Nepal does not have a trade deficit. Nepal has a favourable trade with India. We are not going to do anything which makes Indian industry close down or the Nepalese industry close down. We will have a very equitable kind of arrangement which helps both the countries. But a few individuals should not be allowed to harm the interest of the country. We need to avoid that.

Rajesh Mishra - The Himalayan Times - Will India have any objection, if Nepal gets weapons from USA to fight terrorism?

Ans. Well, first of all, each country has its own policy. It is not for India or any other country to decide what Nepal should have and which country it should contact. But these are hypothetical questions and why go into this. When a question arises, you can ask my opinion that Mr. Ambassador, how do you feel now. But to go into if this happens or that, what is going to happen tomorrow or how is the paper being published….

- Indian media has already started speculation on this?

Indian media speculates about so many other things also. You see, I cannot match your freedom of speech. So, I cannot say anything about the media here or in India. But the very fact that media says something independently and the sovereign government has to decide what they want. It is not for media to tell Nepal what it should do and what it should not do.

Yugnath Sharma Paudel - Commander (In Hindi) - After democracy, has the Indian cooperation reduced in Nepal. People say that the cooperation Nepal received before democracy has reduced. Secondly, the stand that India took about democracy in Islamabad, it has been changed by recognizing Musharraf. Therefore, if democracy is removed from any other country in South-East Asia then what will India do? Will it also recognize it the same way?

Ans. (in Hindi) First of all, you have given me information which I did not have. That is, our cooperation has reduced after the advent of democracy in Nepal. I don't accept it. Many dimensions to our cooperation have been added. There should be an appropriate method to measure these. After democracy, the cooperation has increased.

As far as Musharraf is concerned, opinion of any country about any other country does not remain unchanged, it can happen only when we accept that there are dead people on that side as well on this side who cannot change. There is a principle in the Internatinal law called "ribus sic stantilus" which means - "Circumstances have changed". Circumstances keep on changing. Environment keeps changing and the countries' thinking, their policies also keep on changing. Earlier US used to use a particular language for Russia and today it speaks another. This happens everywhere. There was a time when we used to think that what had happened in Pakistan was not good. Democracy was removed, it was not correct. But when the same ruler said that they are bringing democracy back, a date was also fixed, even then if we continue to sing the same old tune - this kind of political untouchability will not be correct in the global context. Our views have changed on many other subjects too. They may change in future also, but according to the circumstances. The main thing is what is your goal behind it. Our aim was to strengthen the democratic system in that country and, to communicate our faith in it. It was done at that time when Musharraf took over the country. And when there was hope that democracy will come back, we welcomed it. Therefore, the goal in both cases was one and same - that democratic opinion should grow.

Rudra Sharma - The Kathmandu Post - Nepal is about to get the membership of WTO. India is already a member. What will happen to the bilateral trade relations between the two countries after Nepal become a member of WTO?

Ans. The trade relations between India and Nepal provide more than what the WTO provides. WTO does not say that one cannot provide more concession. Nepal is one of the least developed countries, I don't see much problem when Nepal becomes a member of the WTO. Certain obligation come but I don't think that will affect the Indo-Nepal trade relations.

Mr. Rijhal - Free Lance journalist - Your Excellency, what are the improvements in the relationship between our two countries that you expect during your tenure here. Secondly, what is your view on the visit of Mr. Collin Powell to Nepal? What are the supports from your country to end the Nepalese Maoist violence? Will it be military support or helicopters?

Ans. Let me answer your second question first. This is something I cannot answer. You should ask this question either to his Majesty's Government of to the US Embassy. It is not for me to assess the impact of that visit.

Then, you asked about the kind of help that India is giving to His Majesty's Government. We have provided them whatever we are able to provide and let the security forces in the two countries, which always remain in close touch with one another, say whatever they need and to the extent possible India will supply. India is supplying whatever the Royal Nepalese Army has asked for.

Now your first question. You want to know what are things I would like to do. For me, two or three things are such that I, as an individualfeel. They very much inspire my imagination as far as India and Nepal are concerned. I don't think there is any other country with which India has as close relationship as it has with Nepal - no other country. This being the case, I want that both the countries should now think not only of what has gone wrong in the past, but work together to belong to this age - today's age - when the whole civilization is being moved by the knowledge economy, the knowledge based society. Let us get into this and together reap the benefits of this new possibility which in technology, in trade, in industry are favourable. Nepal has plenty of water, the source of power, and India's number one problem is power. What better thing could be of effective use by the two countries. The example of Bhutan shows that in a short time Bhutan has started earning a lot of foreign exchange from royalty from the power that they sell to India. I am hoping that this happens here. That is in my mind. You see the water problem is going to be humanity's biggest problem in 20 years' time. Economists say that future wars will be for water, nothing else. Mankind is not going to die of hunger, if will die of thirst - if we don't take care of our water. And the biggest sources of water are the Himalayas, in Nepal. What are we doing? India is also suffering, Nepal is also suffering. This is a problem for all of us. So, if you ask me, I have these ideas to make use of our resources. Move forward rather than going in the groove. If Nepal is hurt, India will not benefit. If India is hurt, Nepal will not benefit. Our interests are so intertwined. So, we have to think of only those things which will interest both the countries. I will do this in my own humble way, Ambassadors don't matter in today's world very much.

Mr. Kaskey, Reuters - Your Excellency, what do you think are the basic reasons of the falling trend of the Indian tourists to Nepal and how do you think these could be a remedy?

Ans. I think, first of all, the main reason has been certain incidents that took place which created a feeling in India that Nepal is not a pleasant destination any more. Starting with the hijacking of the Indian Airlines, Hrithik Roshan thing happening and then the international economy has also not been doing very well. Tourism has fallen down everywhere. Then you had the September 11 incident in the USA, Afghanistan and now the terrorist violence here. Well, these things have created a kind of feeling in India that Nepal is a bit risky. If they had little money earlier Nepal was their first choice. But now, I think things are looking up. We have the SAARC Summit, it has done a lot to help it. So many other conferences are being held here. No untoward incidents have taken place in Kathmandu and main cities.

There were some difficulties arising out of the hijacking, i.e., some travel documents etc. On that also the Home Secretaries of the two countries are going to meet early next month and I think they will be able to frame out certain documents to enlarge the possibilities so that people are not discouraged because they have to get some travel document. So, both the sides, are fully active in overriding this problem and in trying to promote tourism so that Indians could start coming again. And media also has to play a very important role. Small things happen and they are given a very big blow-up as if the whole nation is burning. Something happens here-even a small newspaper writes here - one of our big national dailies pick it up and it goes all over India. So, I think some more care is needed. Before something is reported, it can be double-checked, it would be better.

- What role can be played by your good offices.

I am already playing a role, trying to ensure that a correct and positive picture of Nepal comes out and people again start thinking of Nepal as the best and easiest tourist destination.

Tara Aryal - Jana Dharana - Tourism

Ans. Well, we are trying to provide cooperation in every possible way. Wherever we are told to take any step we are ready to go that way. Give us suggestions what is to be done. We will give these suggestions to our Government and try that the problems are resolved. As far as travel between the two countries is concerned, tourism is a big industry globally and we both have to work a lot in this direction. Recently, speaking in a meeting on the tourism sector, I had given the example of Spain. Experts told them that they have sun, sand and sea. Then they based their entire tourism industry on sun, sand and sea and today Spain draws the largest number of tourists. What is with us in our countries. You have the mountains, it is not everywhere. You have culture, old places, temples. There are places where people, particularly from the Western countries, come to relax, to have rest. We can give it to them. We must catch and exploit our strengths and the gifts of nature. If we give 5-star comfort, what happens in India, people will say that they have seen enough of it, give us something else. So, if we see, there are many possibilities which we can promote.

Rama Parajuli - Is there any possibility of deployment of Indian Army in the Maoist region of Nepal? Has the Government of Nepal approached India for this?

Ans. First of all, let me tell you, it is India's policy never to let the Indian soldier go out of our border unless he is going on a holiday or is called by the United Nations. So, that is our policy. His Majesty's Government never asked us for any such thing.

Kedar Mansingh - AFP - People are grumbling about the identify cards for travel between the two countries. Are there any steps to remove these restrictions?

Ans. Actually, we are doing that. It is one of the things we are going to discuss. To see that how such restrictions, to the extent possible, are removed. We are working on it. I am very hopeful that we will work out something.

Rameshwar Kafle - Kantipur FM - There is a feeling that even though Nepal is like a younger brother to India, India does not listen to the concerns of Nepal.

Ans. Let me tell you that it is always the policy of India to listen to the grievances of Nepal. I think, it is not correct to say that India does not listen. Particularly, the Trade Treaty, we are going to follow that principle. There should be no doubt of any kind.

Rudra Nepal - India-Bhutan Treaty, signed in 1947, controls Foreign Affairs of Bhutan. How is that, for such a long time India has not helped in sorting out the Bhutanese Refugee's problem? How long will it take to get resolved?

Ans. It is very difficult for me to say how long it will take. I can only say that India is using its persuasive power to ask the two countries to resolve this matter. Now, we cannot use any other kind of pressure. That is not our policy with our immediate neighbours. So, it is very difficult to say how much time it will take.